So for the last 3 rides I noticed some sort of rattling sound at like 6/7k rpm's. So I wanted to check the valve clearance and chain(tensioner). When I removed the cam and crank cover and put the crank at TDC, this is what the cams looked like ... (see pictures). I turned it a few times and checked both the TDC marks and can sprocket marks. Again it looked so off just like the picture. (Tensioner is still in place, haven't touched it. It looks like both cams are way off (even more than 1 tooth). Chain doesn't looks bad, and even a stretched chain shouldn't make the cams look this off right? How is this engine even running? I've done 4000 km like this, track days and everything... Bought the bike from a shop that told me he checked the valves. Please help. What could this be?
Is this an early Daytona, I only have experience with my gen 3 675R? Yours doesn't appear to have slotted adjustable sprockets like mine so not sure how the cam timing is adjusted apart form moving a tooth on the chain. Does it have slots machined on the other end of the camshafts, if so these should be level with the face of the cylinder head. May just be normal chain stretch, I highly doubt the shop selling the bike went to the trouble of disturbing the cams, if they checked anything at all. How many miles on the bike, maybe replace the tensioner, measure the chain "stretch" against the service manual and reset the timing, again unsure how you would do that apart from moving 1 tooth. Hopefully someone with more experience on this engine will offer more advice. This is my gen 3 after replacing the inlet cam and setting the timing with the standard slotted sprockets.
Thanks for the reply. Yup it's a first gen 2007. About 35k miles. It has fixed cam sprockets. I guess I'll just have to take it all apart and measure the chain and check the tensioner. Still got the OEM, thinking about replacing it for the aftermarket APE tensioner. The thing is both cams are wrong but opposite of each other. So I'm Thinking it must be chain stretch, cause jumping tooth on both sprockets would'nt result in a mirror image of each other. But this off can't be only chain stretch right?
I honestly don't know if chain stretch (wear) would move the timing like that, I'd have thought it would be retarded on both cams, they would be out anti-clockwise looking at that end, but I'm no expert. Did you check the slots in the cams, as they are the true timing measure not the sprockets. If both cams are out the same looking at the slots then I'd lock the crank, release the tensioner and jump them both 1 tooth and see how it looks, will probably have to release the chain guide on top, you may not be able to get it bang on with fixed sprockets but it should be better. You could check for chain wear but you need to remove it completely for that and hang weights to measure a specified number of links. I don't have any experience with manual tensioners but I know lots of people use them, mine wasn't making any noise but I measured the spring and it was about 1.5mm short so i replaced it and reset the tensioner.
I seem to recall previous situations where others have discovered that the sprocket marks couldn't be made to line up, but fwiw that looks more extreme than I recollect. My suspicion would also be chain stretch, especially as you can't be certain of the life that engine has experienced or the maintenance it's received. My thinking is that with the TDC dot aligned at the bottom of the crankshaft (as you have), if the chain were severely worn the running distance between the bottom sprocket and the two camshafts would be longer, wouldn't it.? The more worn (longer) the chain, the more it would tend to allow each camshaft to be rotated beyond the point that a new (shorter /tight fitting) chain would enable. -Wouldn't that logically allow for the sort of effect you are seeing.? Imho it has to be worth releasing the chain tension and moving a tooth as Wobbles' suggested, to see how it can look. Hope you manage to sort this, and please keep us posted on how you get on @Greasygeese
if its chain stretch you will be able to line the marks up without moving a tooth when tensioner is released if you need to move 1 or both sprockets a tooth or more then its either jumped a tooth or been set wrong some engines can run with being set a few teeth out without damage can remember doing a cambelt on a old capri for my uncle and it was 2 teeth on before i changed it ran better with new belt but before hand ran ok for however long it had been since last change
Is it possible to fit the cam gear wrong, if they have been removed before? On my son’s 125 you can fit the cam gear 180 degrees out, just put it on upside down. The 2 bolt holes are not offset to force 1 way fitting.
Thanks for the replies. I've gone to the Triumph dealer. Asked the mechanic, he said I was very lucky, thought that it had to be at least 1 tooth of on both camsprockets, cam chain is stretched and he told me the chain tensioner must be broken as well.
I don't know what you mean with the slots in the cams? And where did you get the data for the length of the spring inside the tensioner?
Yes, the sprockets from the inlet and exhaust are the same. They just need to be installed correctly. I've looked into it but they are installed the right way. But that was for sure a good idea to check.
You can see the slots in my second picture, there is a Triumph "special" tool you are supposed to use to fix the cam position when setting the timing, but don't know if early bikes are the same. CCT spring was from here, click on the correct one for your bike and it gives original length info. https://www.triumphparts.co.uk/prod...skets-seals-daytona-675-street-triple/page/2/
Sorry for the late response. Having time has been very rare lately. So first off all, i don't have any slots in the back of the cams. I took the chain tensioner out. Was barely out, spring in the tensioner was at 58,8mm (1,2 mm short according to the site wobblybiker99 mentioned, but because the tensioner was not even close to full extension, I think this should'nt be the problem, cause the less it's out, the more tension it gives). Took the chain out. Hung it up with weights (as mentioned in the service manual) it measured 148,6mm (over the length of 23 links). So it's stretched 1,2ish mm over the limit of replacing. So I'll buy a new one. I did in fact loosened the cam bridge and set the timing again and it lines up perfectly now. I had to turn both cams a tooth so it was definitely off a teeth on both sprockets.... But I'm not gonna run the engine until I've installed a new chain. Fun fact, while I took everything out, I noticed the right chain guide, looking at it from the front, had no play at all. But the left had a lot.. (see picture). Looks like it's worn really bad. I'm pretty sure that will explain any rattling at any rpm's... So the plan is to order a new chain, both chain guides and some small stuff (one of the dowels in between the cover and can bridge was missing (R.I.P. clean oil...) and what I,ve bean measuring so far with the worn chain, the valve clearances are off. Might as wel do the air/oil filter, sparkplugs and oil as wel. Will give an update when i'm done. Might take a while though. Thanks y'all for thinking alongside the repair.
I should have spotted that on your first picture of the timing marks, you can see there's something obviously wrong with the blade. I assume the combination of the worn tensioner blade and the worn chain has caused both cams to jump a tooth, like the mechanic said, lucky there has been no more damage. I'm concerned why the tensioner was barely out, if the chain is worn beyond the limit you'd expect it to be fully extended. Don't know if its the same as the later bikes, with the grooves and spring clips, are you sure its been reset properly and isn't just stuck in. If the spring is worn (short) for the price while your at this stage, I'd be tempted to replace it, to remove any doubts. Hopefully with the timing reset, clearances set and all the service parts changed it will be as sweet as a nut. Keep us up to date Don't forget to change the o rings under the cam ladder
Yep, I don't understand why I didn't noticed it any sooner... I tested the tensioner and it worked just fine so I don't really know. Apart from the massive broken part of the chain guide, it looks like new, like almost no wear. Maybe that's why it wasn't that far out. I'll test is thoroughly when I installed the new chain and guides just to be sure and if there's any doubt I'll replace it. It's all just so expensive . (on the other hand not as expensive as an engine rebuild because the chain snapped because the tensioner malfunctioned)
